Why is it important for women to be selective in their choices?
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Don’t buy coffees, eat in more. It just doesn’t feel good. And they have a really clear picture of what they want to accomplish with their money. For those of you who have not yet met Judith, she is our co-head of our equities Markets division in the corporate and investment bank at Wells Fargo.
[Michael] And just seriously awesome. [Emily] She is who I want to be when I grow up.They’re trying to make do by doing things like buying dupes. 25% of women are buying items that are dupes compared to men. And then 42% say that they spend on a monthly basis more than they can afford, compared to 33% of men. 49% of women are sick of hearing, and this one’s close to my heart, “Eat at home instead of eating out.”
I’m the cook in my family. Sometimes I just want to break. 46% of women are sick of hearing, “Stick to a budget.” And then finally, the day or the daily coffee, 36% of women are sick of hearing “Stop buying your fancy coffee,” compared to 31% of men. As I mentioned today, I’m joined by Michael Liersch and Judith Barry. I would love to know, Judith, what, if anything, are surprising to you about these statistics, or are they kind of tracking a little bit of what you expected?
[Judith] I don’t necessarily know that they’re surprising. I think, first off, it tells you that women are incredibly impressive. Obviously talking about that women couldn’t get a credit card or personal loans until 1974 or even 1988, you couldn’t get a business loan. And curious enough post the pandemic. A lot of women decided that they wanted flexibility in the work force, so they decided to start their own businesses.And women now feel empowered to do that. I think some of the trivial statements about, you know, don’t buy the expensive coffee or shop less and, the reality is, you know, eat at home. With inflation as it is now, it could probably cost you just as much to eat at home as it does to go out. But the reality is, I think that these are comments that get made to everybody nowadays. I think the difference is, is that people are really empowered to navigate their finances in a way that we historically haven’t, or at least generationally, is very different.
[Michael] Judith, it’s interesting because especially with the advice and the advice, Emily, that you highlighted, that women are sick of hearing. And I’m looking at this, Judith. And based on what you just said. I was actually just on with the reporter talking about this exact topic. So, they’re going to write a whole article on the things people are sick of hearing. And I said exactly what you said, which is, and Emily, you alluded to, which is, you know, we’re all living our lives. We’re all busy people. We have things going on. We have things that we enjoy. Perhaps there are things we could do differently, but there are certain pieces of advice that I think really strike untrue to certain human beings.And even to your point, you know, situationally, I’m just imagining Emily and Judith, you know, working parents. And the fact of the matter is that people do, and we see this in behavioral research, they divide and conquer. So, one person might be the majority person making the meals. The other person might be keeping the budget and Emily, you kind of alluded this, Judith, like oftentimes this could fall on a, you know, working mom or a mom in general. And so hearing don’t do those things, I think feels not only off base but just incongruent without how life works. Is that what I’m hearing from both of you a little bit? I just, I’m curious.
[Judith] Emily. I’ll take that. I mean, I think the reality is, is that it depends on who you’re giving the advice to. I think if your goal is, is that you want to be saving for something; a car, a house, a special trip, then that’s advice I’d give to anyone is be practical. Practical about what you spend your money on. Be thoughtful and create a budget. But, you know, there’s a lot of younger people nowadays who think that they should have everything, and then it’s going to sort of maybe buy them happiness. You know, we live in a social media society nowadays versus, you know, older generation. So, when I grew up, you pretty much had to go to the mall or a store to know what was available to you and fashion trends, or you’d get a magazine. [Michael] I loved the mall, Judith. The mall was the best. [Judith] I know. The mall was the best. The mall was a lot of different things. But the reality is nowadays you’re inundated with either emails or social media or people pushing things where it’s, you know, this week, it’s this cream, this makeup, this pair of pants that you need to own, and we sort of have this, you know, purchasing consumer-oriented society nowadays where everyone thinks that it’s that fear of missing out.I have to have those things. So, there is sometimes with the, with a younger generation where they could be overspending, where the messaging does make sense of, hey, you need to get your finances aligned if you’re going to want to have the bigger things in life. If you want to buy a car, if you want to live alone instead of live with your college roommates, or you want to buy a house, or you want to go on a nice vacation, and those are all things that, you know, require savings. And so again, if you’re buying the $6 coffee every morning, those things do add up. So, the way I look at it is I don’t necessarily know that you have to stop, but you should be aware of what you’re spending your money on, what it totals up to, and where you want your money to go for the longer haul.
[Emily] I totally agree Judith. I mean, I think about every decision as an intentional one. Is this something that I, by making this decision, am I compromise or making a trade off on something else? And if so, is that something else more or less valuable to me from a long-term goal perspective, from a financial freedom perspective, from a bring me joy perspective. And I’m not a coffee drinker. So for me, like skipping a coffee is no big deal, right? [Michael] Emily, coffee is so good. So good. [Emily] Right. But for me, I just let that kind of go off of me. But there are other things that really seem to needle me on this type of advice, and I’m empathetic to the women who shared with us that they’re feeling the pain and they’re kind of living in this call it fast fashion, media driven social media driven, show up with a different type of look every day driven culture. And they’re feeling the need to want to sustain that. But by doing it, it could inadvertently have the effect of having them either going to more debt that they want, which they’ve shared with us, or taking on a longer timeline to achieve the goals that are actually important to them. So, I’m totally with you on that. [Michael] And I guess where I was coming from, Emily and Judith, I’m just–maybe I’ll just like, make it about me for a second. I was just thinking about to my mom, you know, she was divorced, single mom raising two boys and trying to do everything. And at one point, and my mom listens to the show. Hey, mom. She really does. You know, at one point, she had three jobs, no joke, three jobs. She slept on the couch, and my brother and I slept in the bedroom and we’re, and Judith, just so you know, our listeners know, like, my background and things like that, you know, I can’t even imagine giving her this type of advice. I just really can’t because she was doing so much out of necessity.And I guess that’s where I’m coming from. I’m just thinking of all the women out there who are primarily or solely accountable for their households, or again, by division of labor, they’re responsible, you know, for that budget or making these tough decisions. And so I’m wondering if in part and I’m going to kind of challenge Emily and Judith on this, is the advice landing flat?
Because when you’re the one who’s actually having to make all the decisions, it’s tough. It’s exhausting. And so, so sometimes you have to bring yourself a little bit of joy with the, the random thing you’re purchasing or I mean, I know I feel it, I and there’s a lot of behavioral science around it. When you feel overwhelmed or exhausted, you know, sometimes you just have to not think for a second and just do something out of, you know, impulse or emotion. And that’s okay too. I agree with both of you though. Like how and Judith, you said this to me like before this podcast being selective about those ideas is really important. So I don’t know what your reaction is that maybe I’m overreacting to it based on my life experience, but what’s your thought?
[Emily] Well, selectivity is key. I’m going to let Judith talk a little bit about that, but I think because you can be selective, it creates an environment then of sustainability. I totally get what you’re saying. I just want to make sure we’re balancing there are different audiences. There are the audiences who are saying I’m responsible for everything. And I feel behind and I’m trying to get out or get to some place.And then there are also those that kind of feel like it’s a personal attack. I think, like, hey, this just doesn’t seem like advice you would give to maybe my male counterpart, right? Whatever the equivalent is like, you would never maybe tell them, don’t go buy a new pair of golf clubs to be like super stereotypical, right? and so it might just hit a little bit too close to home or to your point, Michael, it might just be that it feels personal because based on the division of labor, within your household, it seems to be that, you know, the cuts seem to be coming from your side of the, responsibility balance sheet.
And so there’s this pressure of like, well, how do I do more with less, and make it sustainable, but, Judith, I would love to hear your thoughts on being selective as well.
[Judith] I’m actually going to throw a curveball. I actually think that they don’t say this to men, because there’s an assumption that men of course, have their finances in order. We’ve talked a little bit about this is that sometimes there’s the assumption that women don’t work or they don’t have awareness. And we talk a lot about where do you get your financial advice from?Michael, similar to you, I’m going to make my mom watch this because moms are always your number one fan. But, you know, my mom was, you know … Michael’s mom, my mom, Emily’s mom, all moms are going to watch this. But like, my mom came here from England. She was what we call a war baby.
So, she was born in 1942, and she lived in a time period where there was war rations. So, like, it’s sort of like, what is that? But, like, it’s exactly that. You didn’t know what you were going to get to eat or drink that night. So, she was very conscious of what she ate, how she did things, what money was spent on.
And it’s like, it’s sort of a mentality that went with her all her life. And, you know, she didn’t she never had a credit card for a long period of time. And so, you know, society sort of evolved now where you can easily get access to loans and credit cards and things to be thoughtful. But I think that, you know, as you advance, it’s assumed that, you know, women are off in their in their careers, but it’s usually head of household or, you know, men run the money or even when women get married is there’s a sort of default that you don’t understand.
So, I think the commentary, unfortunately does get directed at women more often, which, you know, for me, there’s two conversations is that, you know, no matter the path you choose, you know, financial knowledge or awareness is critical. You know, and you should never give up or relinquish understanding where the money you make or the household you live. You should know where your finances are. You should know a lot about the finances because it’s really important.
But you know, when you’re going back to that conversation about fast fashion, do you really need ten pairs of black pants or do you just buy one? And it’s, you know, be selective in the things that you buy, be selective in the people you spend time with. You know, if you have friends who all they ever want to do is go out, go, you know, go to the bars, go to dinner, go on vacations.
And it doesn’t necessarily align with what your budget is. You’re going to have to be selective in what you can do, where you can go, and the things that you can say yes to. And I think one of the most empowering things is actually your ability to say no. You have to be able to say no to things, because in short, order for a young person or even for older people, you can get yourself in trouble pretty quickly.
And there isn’t necessarily a bailout for that. You know, it’s you need to be able to be in a situation where, especially with interest rates, where they are right now, you know, you want to know that you’re going to be able to pay that credit card bill or pay a loan off, in sort of short order, because if not, it’s going to keep you from having or achieving bigger financial goals.
[Michael] And it’s the double whammy of rates. Right, Judith? And inflation. Right. Things are becoming more and more expensive. And the money study addresses that too, where Americans, you know, women and men both are experiencing a lot of sticker shock with, you know, common things and items that they’re purchasing, to your point. Let’s go back to the default thing, because I was taking notes as you were talking, Judith, and taking notes in my brain, and one of them was this default that men have it all together when it comes to money, budgeting, finances, and women might need the advice more and it reminds me, you know, at a former life, in a client situation more when I was a professor, you know, sitting with client and advisor team, husband and wife team, by the way, and with the client and the client pointed out, at a certain point, the husband, actually, that they were just looking at him and not the wife.And it turns out all the money that they were talking about investing and how was going to be investing was the wife’s money. And she was a former investment banker and this team, it was a prospect meeting, and this team and I, since I wasn’t looking at their body language, this advisor team’s body language, I didn’t realize what was going on.
And so when you think about that default, it expresses itself, Judith and Emily, right, in very interesting and below the surface ways. What advice? You know, in that moment, it was very striking and actually in that particular situation, the husband and wife stood up and left the meeting actually said, and they didn’t interact with that advisor team. So what advice, Emily, would you provide or Judith, would you or and Judith, would you provide to listeners who may be in that in a situation where, you know, it’s their money, their decision making or it’s joint because in this case, you know, the, the story I’m referring to, you know, it was her money. And how does someone address that in a way where you can productively move forward? Because there are two elements here, right? You know, the dynamics of a relationship and also making sure you have agency over your money, your financial life. Judith and Emily, like you mentioned. So that’s really the question, Emily, like, what would be your suggestion if you’re in a spot like that as woman and Emily and Judith, I don’t know if you’ve been in spots like that, but I do hear a lot of clients and customers say that’s not an uncommon circumstance to be in.
[Emily] Yeah. Well, and, Michael, there’s a few things. The first is, I think that just remember, and I had a fabulous female mentor, in early on in my career, and she looked at me before I went into my first client meeting where I was handling myself. And she said, just remember, you know more than they do. And it was just like this feeling of like, that’s right.Like, I’ve got this, and I bring that up because women we know that based on research, women and men actually know the same amount about finances. In the vast majority of the cases. It’s just that the perception or how we present ourselves sometimes makes others think we may not. Or they presume that we don’t based on a number of different factors. Sometimes it’s just the fact that we’re a woman.
[Michael] Or Emily, to do this point, the social narrative makes us feel inside a particular way, which then leads to a lot of the things you’re talking about. [Emily] Correct. So, the first thing is go in, I would say armed with as much education as you can. So to the extent that you want to get yourself up to speed, I mean, I talk with friends about finances, we talk about salaries, we talk about how we manage, different expenses, how we save, how we invest. Right? I, we read books about it. We look at social media. If there’s something interesting like, you can do really whatever you want, but just to like, arm yourself with education. But number two, and this is like super practical, I hope you have to know exactly what the advice your receiving is and what you’re doing when you put your name on something.And so my background is as an attorney, and I would never go into a meeting with clients if it was even an inkling that one or both of the spouses had no idea what they were actually signing. It is absolute mission critical to know if you’re going to be signing articles of incorporation because you’re starting a business. What does that mean?
If you’re going to be jointly managing your assets, maybe with a partner, what does that really mean? You know, can you access all the funds and do you understand that he or she or partner can access all those funds as well? That would be my most practical advice, because then you can start asking questions around, well, what does this really mean to me as I’m managing my money, as I’m looking at my long term goals, as I’m looking to educate myself, where are my own gaps that I want to be able to ask those hard questions and don’t self edit yourself. Go into meetings either, if you’re with a partner, maybe do some prep beforehand, almost like a pre-meeting. Hey, here’s the things we want to accomplish. And here’s what I want to accomplish and here’s what I want to understand.
[Michael] We love that Emily. Right. It is my favorite. It is. [Emily] It is my favorite, it is. [Michael] You gave me that advice yesterday on something. [Emily] I did, and then when you’re in the meeting, I would encourage every woman listening to be the one asking the questions. If you’re in it jointly, don’t rely on your spouse and partner because that just gives up the agency. The perception of the agency that you have over your own funds, Judith, anything? I’d love to hear your thoughts some additional comments based on your experiences. [Judith] I think the great thing is, is that Michael, as you said it in the beginning of your question is, is that you know, you’re not going to change everyone generationally. But if you find someone where you walk into a situation where they’re not going to empower you to be part of the conversation related to your financials, you can walk out.You know, that’s the great thing. You have a whole host of people who you can engage. But I think one of the most important things is, is that, you know, you just said like, educate yourself. You know, we can sit here and criticize social media for all the all the things it makes us want to buy. But there’s been no better time to be able to turn around and look and understand something.
What’s the difference between joint tenants and common versus joint tenants with rights or survivorship or things like that? Like, you know, there’s a lot of terminology in finance that can be incredibly intimidating to people. And I think that women are getting better at being conversational with one another. And it isn’t necessarily like, well, how much money do you have?
But it’s, hey, do you have a good accountant? Do you have a lawyer? Do you have someone who could help me? Do you have a financial advisor? I’d like to do this. The people you talk to don’t have to have the answers, and you don’t have to share your intimate details. But they can say, hey, this person was really helpful to me.
But when you’re a woman coming into a situation, some women are comfortable and I always say this, people are going… People have to choose what’s right for them. But going back to what I originally said in the beginning is financial awareness is incredibly empowering for women and to feel comfortable enough to walk into a meeting with your spouse, your partner, and actually be one of the people who is going to be like, I’m going to ask questions to you, and I’m going to want to know things instead of having to turn around and ask your spouse or partner, like, what did that mean?
What is this is to be part of the conversation. But the education process beforehand is great. Technology gives us a huge advantage to look up all these obscure terminologies and acronyms that exist. And it’s incredibly helpful.
[Michael] So, it’s interesting you’re saying all this because, Judith, you threw a curveball in here. So I’m going to do one as well. And you have alluded to a lot of, you know, the lingo that we have in financial services, you know, the comfort level, and Emily, you alluded to this too, in sharing what you know and don’t know.And it’s always fascinating when you look at the men and women data in behavioral circles, men tend towards overconfidence around a lot of different topics, including finance. And women tend towards under confidence, which Emily leans into. What you said many women actually know quite a similar or the same amount. They just feel differently about that level of knowledge, in their minds.
So Judith, I … here’s a curveball. I know you, you know, whether it’s client events or employee events at Wells Fargo leading our employee resource network, for women in particular. Can you tell us a little bit about what you hear in those women only forums that could actually make advice more empowering, or make the information sharing easier, or giving women more of a voice or agency in their financial decision making or not. Maybe the women you’re talking to are like, I’m good, everything’s fine, but what’s your thought there?
[Judith] So, it’s interesting. I actually think you just pointed out the key example is, is that, you know, for the first time ever, and if we go back to some of the stats that you shared in the beginning of this is that the reality of the matter is we’re making progress and women have a voice. You know what women of a majority, the population, Wells Fargo, are our largest.You know, women are the dominant population here at Wells. You know, more women are getting, bachelor’s degrees. Women are preparing themselves, and there are more women in the workforce. And there’s actually statistics around that. Women are starting to out, outpace men in their earnings. And I think that, you know, listen, this is women in business that we’re talking about here.
So, it’s only just one particular pool. But, you know, there are women’s events, you know, Wells Fargo, most banks on the street, most corporations are empowering women to come together as an organization or as a group to as I always use the words to educate, elevate, and empower themselves to not only navigate their careers, but also their finances.
And women are becoming far more comfortable. You know, it’s interesting in the day job that I have of co-running the equity division is that there are stats even on women investors and they tend to be more cautious. And there’s a lot of success stats around being a more cautious and thoughtful investor on occasion. So, again I think we’re making tremendous progress, you know, we know it doesn’t change overnight. Again, we sat here and talked about 1974. You couldn’t get a credit card or a loan in 1988. You couldn’t get a business loan. And now look where we are today, where, you know, there’s a significant amount of population, you know, Michael, you’re going to know it better than I am.
But I think we did a report about, you know, the support we’re giving to women in launching their own businesses here at Wells Fargo and giving them loans. I mean, money is a scary thing. It’s intimidating. And we use a lot of financial vernacular that that can be scary. But having these events where women come together, especially women from different career paths, different industries, and sort of sharing and educating, I think has been incredibly empowering for women.
[Michael] So, on that note, and Emily, I know you’re passionate about this too and I have a 15 year old daughter and she’s kind of getting interested, by the way. And she just went to a, to your point on business and professional career, Judith. She went to like this model. It wasn’t the United Nations. It was like model, business committee, sort of forum for four days and had to actually argue for things as an attorney and, and just came back and loved it, loved every moment of it, which was, which was really cool to see. But what’s not cool to see is in some of the money study data, you know, for teens like my daughter and, you know, when they go into that social media environment to get some of this advice, it seems to be really leaning into those stereotypes and not being as empowering as Judith, so those events you’re talking about are for adult women. What do we do about this? I just I’m like literally as a, as a dad of a 15-year-old daughter, my, my wife Rachel and I are like, we’re struggling here. Like, what do we do about this? How do we combat against whatever that social media narrative is? [Judith] So, Emily and I were kind of talking about this before. I’ve a 21-year-old daughter, Olivia. I have to say her name in case she watches, because she’ll be upset if I don’t give her the shout out. But like, moms are working a lot more and they’re starting to empower their daughters. And it’s a lead by example and I know that sounds unusual because not everyone will have the example going back to that content. Like, you can find content that can tell you to go one direction. But if you’re curious about things, there are tremendous amount of programs even available to young women nowadays. And I would love social media to not just want to, you know, pander to young women and sell them sort of old school narratives.It exists. But I think that the more success we see in women, that the more leaders that there’s going to be. I mean, again, we can talk about all of the people in various businesses or in politics and industries where you’re beginning to see more and more women sort of make strides and head ways and, and. Exactly. I think it’s, again, our leadership that we give to our daughters.
And, you know, Emily and I were joking around before, but the reality is I’m going to lean on her. She’s going to lean on me, I’m going to give her advice and that’s it. And you sort of you collectively start to help each other and you elevate the next generation. And that’s what you have to hope for. And by the way, doing podcasts like this, you know, this is this is something that we’re going to hope this isn’t just for women who are my age.
I’m hoping my daughter will show this to her friends and say, hey, like, this is really important. I’m 21 and I want to be thoughtful about having real conversations about what my career is going to look like, about what my finances are going to look like, and my ultimate success and happiness.
[Michael] Well, before you jump in here, Emily. Judith, what? And maybe Emily, you can help me out here. Why do you think the money study shows that women are going to the social media platforms? Instagram, TikTok, more for this type of information. Yet it’s not making women feel good, especially teen girls. Well, I again, I’m just I’m trying to figure out the dynamic because I agree with you 100% of what you said.But what is drawing, let’s say, a female audience to those platforms, even though it’s, you know, creating a bit of judgment and shame as well. And I agree, we all need to be involved, but it feels almost at odds, if that makes any sense, Judith. Like being attracted to something that’s not going to actually give you the advice that empowers you and gives you the agency you just described. So, I just I just want to kind of like talk about it because I’m confused by it. I really am as a data scientist. I’m at a loss.
[Emily] Yeah. And well, I think there’s, there’s potentially a little bit of a vicious cycle, but I think it can also be used for good, not evil. And this is for my daughter Olivia, who’s 14. So, Judith, we have a lot in common. [Judith] A couple of Olivias. [Emily] It’s a good name. So, here’s the deal. I see my daughter. You know, I learned a lot about finance from my mom. She was, I call it, like, very old school, like, literally coupon method. Talked about it. To this day, still balances her checkbook physically, right? Like, and I appreciate that, but I also saw it, and it was, it was a unique kind of. She was a working mom, which was not maybe the norm back then. And so it was a little bit more of a unique educational experience for me growing up. Just assuming, like, I would lean into knowing about money, my money, family money, right? Like how expenses are paid, etc. I look at my daughter and I look at the social media aspect of it, and on one hand I’m like, kudos to these young women who are leaning into the fact that they don’t really understand money, and they have these aspirations based on social media and otherwise that they want to achieve.And so they’re turning to social media to learn about it, right? Like they’re actually taking action. The where the vicious cycle can potentially come in is it can be so overwhelming. I mean Judith’s already mentioned some of the alphabet soup. Right. Joint tenants with right of survivorship, cotenancy, a beneficiary designations. You know what’s an IRA? What’s traditional, what’s Roth? And so I think what’s happening is they see what they want to accomplish. They actually lean into trying to accomplish it. And then there’s so much coming back at them that it can be at times overwhelming because they have to almost say, like, well, what do I need to know right now? What’s actually aligned to the goal that I need?
Like, is this education I need at this stage in my life? Or is this something that maybe I don’t really know, I don’t need to know joint tenancy right now it’s just not a big deal. I’m 14. I can wait to do that until, you know, I’m in my 20s. And so I think there’s a little bit of that because it can just come at you so fast, and it’s hard to discern what’s actually applicable to you at this time. And what I would say is saving, investing, spending, understanding tax implications, whether it’s through different investment accounts, starting an IRA when you’re really young with your first job, or even just the basics of like, you get your first paycheck and like, who is FICA and why is all my money going to him? Right?
And how I can help get them to where they want to go on their terms based on where they’re at, in, in their financial journey. So that’s what I’m taking away from Emily, you and Judith, did I get it right?
[Judith] And Michael, I would add one thing in. You keep it really simple. I mean, I know it sounds crazy, but, like, you start with the value of money. You know, I don’t know if people do allowances anymore. I do a really odd thing. You know, once my kids started to do basic things when we would go to restaurants, I would make the kids do the tip, and then I would explain to them, like how to calculate a tip, what a tip means, what’s the tax?You know, what is, what is the bill, what does it represent? But more importantly, you have to socialize what money is and what things should cost and what’s normal. What’s not normal, what’s excessive? What’s a fancy dinner versus a take, you know, a slice of pizza, is that you have to start to give them guidance and awareness around really simple things.
So, like we’re again using those technical terms about, you know, a Roth IRA or starting a, you know, an IRA when a kid is, is, you know, has their first job. Some people are not going to be that sophisticated. So really, for me, for most, you know, for everybody out there, the basic thing is, is to normalize money.
It’s an incredibly important thing and not make it intimidating. And if you start at a very young age in your family, in your household, for both your sons and your daughters, to start to explain what it is, how you spend it, how you make it. And again, going back to that, being selective in how you’re going to spend it and how you’re also going to save it.
I think sometimes the simple way is the easiest way to begin taking away the intimidation around money.
[Michael] I love that. Normalizing money, Emily. We’re going to steal that from Judith. Okay? You got. [Emily] I think we need to end on that. [Michael] Yeah, exactly, exactly. Emily, do you want to close us out like any, I, this is so helpful for me. And again, I don’t have your lived experience. I don’t have a female’s lived experience. And I find I’m actually finding the episode very valuable for myself. So, thank you for answering some of my questions. And allowing me to really be authentic and open. Emily, do you want to close this out on any thoughts that you have. [Emily] Well, I love the idea of normalizing money and as early and often as you can. I think that just gives you the comfort and the confidence to be able to both on your own and whether it’s your social network of family, friends, colleagues, to be able to have those life experiences and feel the confidence to be able to ask the questions that you need to make intentional financial decisions to achieve your goals. Period. End of story. [Michael] So, I lied, I have one more. [Emily] Oh my God, you can’t. [Michael] Since we have you on and I just don’t want to miss this opportunity. So, Judith, everyone at Wells Fargo thinks you’re just so extraordinary as a professional and a human being and that’s just factual. Everyone says that to your face and behind your back. So, when you have listeners, we’re going to have employees at Wells Fargo listening, clients and customers, people who are thinking of working with Wells Fargo. Can you provide just on your professional, a professional journey, your professional lens and insight for all of our listeners, male or female? On some professional advice on how you’ve navigated your extraordinary journey while being such a principled and respected professional. Judith, I’d just love to hear one piece of advice on how you did that and navigated that. [Judith] I tend to use the word resilience. It’s something that I think is really important is, is that the path is never straight. It’s never easy. And you actually should want obstacles, you know, things that, that you’re going to learn from. I’ve had an extraordinary experience here at Wells Fargo. I’ve been here for almost eight years now. And you know, who you surround yourself with and how you navigate things is really important. But I won’t leave it at one thing. I said resilience. But to be curious and to be resilient, I think, is incredibly important and realize that you achieve nothing on your own and the people you surround yourself with and the people who you’re fortunate enough to work with, and obviously your family members.It’s all critical to who the person is. It’s never you’re never you’re never who you are just because of what you do. It’s for all the other people who are around you. And as I said, I think you know, my path here at Wells has been extraordinary. I’ve been given wonderful opportunities here. But I should say this, I’m incredibly proud here is that, you know, there’s not necessarily been a woman who’s ever headed an equity division at any bank, ever and I’m here and that speaks to the testament to what women can do and what Wells Fargo allows you to do as an organization.
[Michael] And just you’re, Judith, just how extraordinary of a professional you are in your technical expertise. So I just want to recognize that as well. We’re just so grateful to have you on this podcast and have everyone benefit from your insight. And I hope everyone enjoyed this conversation. [Judith] I appreciate it. It was fun.Investment and Insurance Products are:
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About the study: On behalf of Wells Fargo, Versta Research conducted a national survey of 3,657 U.S. adults and 203 U.S. teens aged 14 to 17. Sampling was stratified, and data were weighted by age, gender, race, ethnicity, income, and education to achieve accurate representation of the current population, based on estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau. The survey was conducted from September 5th to October 4th, 2024.
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